My thoughts are that your opinions of the 'bul are spot on sir - watch out for the rose-tinted specs brigade as they're sure to launch a counter attack! I nothing of Tomer or language schools in general however, sorry.

My husband is from Kayseri and I loved it there when we went for a visit. It was cleaner, tons cheaper, a more grid shaped layout close to an American city, and not too crowded but big enough to find something to do. I told my hubby if we ever moved to another city in Turkey, it would have to be there. I don't know much about the other places but I loved Kayseri.

MrM.

I concur with your well written piece on Istanbul although I would add that it is easy to go places where it is quieter, nicer and pollution free (Princes Islands for example)

Choosing another city would certainly reduce your rental costs. Izmir is cheaper than Istanbul, Bursa is cheaper than Izmir and Samsum would be cheaper still . Whether or not you could find a suitable Turkish course is something that you'd have to research, probably though the amount you'd save on rent would pay for private lessons , which again are cheaper in the smaller cities.

Trabzon is the only place in Turkey that I've ever felt unsafe and beyond that you'll end up speaking Turkish with a 'redneck' accent if you learn there. I personally love Bursa and you could easily do a day trip from Istanbul to check the city out before you make any decisions, but it is crowded too. And an outside the box suggestion is to go to a sleepy beach town and hire a private tutor. I went to Kas, had a fantatstic tutor and paid much, much less than I would have if I had come to Istanbul and gone to a language school. I was at the level you want in less than 3 weeks, but I had studied a bit before I got there...it sounds like you need to get to a 2.1? PM if you want details.

[quote user="mrmineo" post="81652"]the bull just seems like a giant, filthy, polluted, massively overcrowded city with crumbling infastructure and a traffic problem that would make a Los Angelino blanch[/quote]

Now THERE'S someone who understands Istanbul!

Sorry man, no advice for you on this one, just wanted to say you hit the 'Bulls-eye with the description.

Matt

Not to be snitty, but, seriously. Duh. What did you expect when you moved to a barely second world city with 15 million poor people? I've lived in far worse places than this. I don't think it's all that bad. My standard of living has increased.

If I wanted things to work all the time and be easy, I'd move back to America.

[quote user="mrmineo" post="81652"] To me the bull just seems like a giant, filthy, polluted, massively overcrowded city with crumbling infastructure and a traffic problem that would make a Los Angelino blanch. [/quote]

Agreed. But still love it nontheless. The beauty and good things are there, if you choose to find them. Likewise, open spaces and history is everywhere, but you won't find it in Taksim Mr M!!

And yes, you're better off in a smaller city for a cheaper standard of living and cheaper lessons.

Is that fair enough Simon??

TÖMER has multiple branches in Ankara as well.

I liked Ankara, it has more green spaces and a better city design than Istanbul. I don't think rent is so much cheaper than in Istanbul, however (compared to some of the other cities you mentioned). Maybe 25% cheaper?? Some Ankara folks could help you out with that.

Bursa seemed quite nice the few times I've visited. The advantages of being in one of these regional cities vs. a beach resort is you will be more immersed in real Turkish culture and less likely to be able to fall back on your English. The problem with the smaller city TÖMER's is that they will not open a class if there are not a certain minimum of students. Most likely not an issue for the first few months but could be an issue down the line. The Ankara TÖMER is busy enough that you will not encounter this.

My friend did 2 months at Ankara TÖMER before transferring to the Istanbul branch. He liked it quite a lot.

If you have a specific, measurable goal in mind in your Turkish learning, TÖMER is the place for you, methinks. The curriculum works towards the measurable goal of being able to pass the the Turkish university exam after 12 months. After 8 months you have been introduced to 95% of all Turkish grammer.

Good luck!

Istanbul is what you make of it.....if you have negative thoughts you'll see all the negative points, try to be more positive and dont be so narrow minded, afterall life is what you make it yourself no ones going to do it for you, and yes of course Istanbul can be a pain from time to time and also be dirty but its actually much cleaner than its ever been, being the size of the city it is you can never avoid the traffic situation so get over it. I travel to a lot of places on business and trust me i've seen much worse places than here. what i dont get is that if people have such negative thoughts then why stick around, get out and go to somewhere you'll be a happy bunny.

is the glass half empty or half full? are the spectacles rose-tinted or deliberately gloomy?

MrM you have a choice either:
(a) cheer up and give Istanbul another chance (as you can see from the responses here, your view is subjective and not shared by everybody); or
(b) if Istanbul is making you miserable, move somewhere else. You have the financial capability to do so, so why hang around if you are only going to make yourself and eveybody around you miserable?

Just don't moan, please.

My take: If you want a comfortable, really cheap place to slide into mid- to late-life in and don't have a lot of spare dosh to throw at a nice urban lifestyle, then I wouldnt live in any large city. You, of course, lose the energy of a large city and the options/alternatives. This includes for most people having access to the job market. Having lived the extremes of city life versus the pastoral idyll, I realized I prefer the city life. But I'm a sensory junkie and bore easily. Now, I'd rather live in the ghetto than in the muck -- if those were my only choices.

Rots a ruck.

BTW, you *can* get an apartment for $400/month -- just not where you'd probably like it. I shared a large 3 bedroom apartment with someone for 150 euro/month (my half), utilities included. It was in a 'conservative' area, but within a 3 minute walk of the metro. I zipped to Taksim in 20 minutes for pennies. I loved that neighborhood. I was the only non-Turk in the area, as far as I could tell -- other than the Japanese transvestite. I lived next to a mosque, had a market outside my door, and the local merchants were happy for my custom. ("One free daughter with every two suits purchased. You like?") Depends on what you want.

I've also lived in a penthouse apartment in a site with all the attendant goodies. But that runs about $550,000 to slide into for starters. This I liked also.

So, yes, you can find an apartment for $400/month.

I definitely agree that its easier to fall back on your English in a resort town, but it's possible to avoid it if you're disciplined enough. The whole need to learn Turkish (a critical needs language) made me think this must be a for the US FS. It's been a while, they use (perhaps don't anymore) a scale where 2.1 or 2.2 is what you need to get credit.

[quote user="mrmineo" post="81683"]The bonus for a critical language would put me over the top.[/quote]

Just curious... Is "Turkish" now considered a critical language? By US/UK FS?


Good luck with your plans.

Ok MrMineo, start looking for a bottle of good dry red wine to give me as a present for solving this problem for you.

The answer to the riddle of which city is (nearly) perfect for you is......Ankara.

Pros:
Orderly and basically traffic-free (compared to the Bull)
Clean and cheap (compared to the Bull)
High Quality Turkish spoken there
Foreigner Friendly - you can find folks who speak English there, but you have to look for them.
An Expat resource group that I am sure will help you solve your accomodation problems
A "REAL" metro that is clean , safe and efficient
Taxis that tend to take you where you want to go...directly (most of them)
Travel to anywhere in Turkey is easy from there, nice airport and bus stations everywhere.
***In general, this is the place to live if you want a systematic lifestyle. (As much as you could get in Turkey)

Cons:
Historical Value - well since its a relatively new place, not much to see.
Scenery - Green, but boring
Weather - Colder than a witches tit in a brass bra in the winter, muggy and hot in the summer
Nightlife - Nothing like the Bull, but you can find some fun spots if you look around a little.

And if you want to wipe out most of the things on the Con list, while keping most of the Pro list intact, you can move to Izmir. More fun than Ankara, nearly as fun as the Bull. Lots of Historical stuff, a relaxed atmosphere, foreigner friendly and pretty good transportation.

Let me know when to expect my wine (:D)