Has anyone traveled by trains to the ME, specifically Israel? I would really like to go sometime this summer and was just wondering what the service was like. I'm am definitely in the early stages of planning, but I read somewhere that once you've been to Syria, you are not allowed into Israel---does anyone know the reliability of that statement? If that is true, I won't be able to travel by train bc it goes Ist-Syria-Jordan-taxi to Israel.

I thought that it is vice versa. If you have a stamp saying you have been to Israel you can't enter Syria? Israeli passport control give you an extra removable page for their stamp anyway. I would have thought a train ticket etc showing Israel is evidence enough too...

Sounds like a great trip though! I'm jealous!

I was reading this but you probably have the same info:
Travel on the weekly 'Toros Express' with its direct sleeping-car from Istanbul to Aleppo in Syria.
Travel on to Damascus by train.
Travel by twice-weekly train or daily buses from Damascus to Amman in Jordan.
Take a bus or taxi from Amman to the Allenby Bridge border crossing with Israel.
http://www.seat61.com/Israel.htm

Cool trip! You should check with the Israeli Embassy or Consulate just to be sure. I've heard of people being turned back with a Syrian stamp, or hassled for hours. The Israelis will stamp a piece of paper with the visa if you ask them.

Allenby Bridge is in Palestine not Israel. Where did you learn geography?

There shouldnt be a problem travelling there with a Syrian stamp, as an American citizen you will have to apply for a transit visa at the consulate in Istanbul but it should be ok going in and out, maybe just the odd question on the border. If you have to get a visa remember not to tick yes on the "have you been to occupied Palestine" question on the form. In terms of travel you cannot go across the Syrian border, which would be through the occupied Golan Heights for the simple reason that Syria does not allow entry for people who have visited Israeli (or in some cases suspected as having done as they will look suspiciously if you have a fresh Passport issued at your embassy in Amman or Cairo as people have been known to hide an Israel i stamp by pretending to los e the passport) so if you are standing on the Israeli border you plainly have.

Also do not tell them you plan to visit Israel, this is grounds for refusal by Syria, so just tell them you are going to Jordan.

As they say you should make sure Israeli authorities do not stamp your passport, i you ask they will have no problem giving you a bit of paper with the stamp to put in the passport.

There are no trains into Israel itself, you will have to go by taxi to Allenby Bridge and across West Bank and Israel proper on the other side, which is Israeli border control although you will have to present your passport again going out of the West Bank but you should have few problems with that.

To be honest as an American citizen any hassle is more likely to come with Syria than Israel.

Thank you all! As always, you have been very helpful. It makes much more sense now. Charly--Thanks for looking up that information. That is the same website I found. It was pretty helpful, don't you think?

Yeah definitely - my BF doesn't like flying and I don't like buses so a train/boat trip is the only way to go. I suggested the above trip and he thought I was slightly mad!
I'm going to work on him as I really fancy going to Syria. My mate said Aleppo is great. Plus Aya on here is going back to Tel Aviv soon so I have to visit - or I'm dead or something like that.... o)

I would love to do that train trip as well, i liked what i saw of Israel proper as i breezed through to West Bank and Gaza Strip and want to return again for a holiday and see the country properly. I am a big fan of the Middle East in general and have found both Israelis and those from other Arab countries friendly and kind even in some of the most stressful living conditions.

Charly-I could never tell anyone back home that I was planning to go to Israel. They would think I was mad as well!
Granted, it is on the US State Dept. travel warnings, but I've been in contact with a few people who have traveled there recently and said the media has hyped up alot of the issues (surprise). The closest I've been to the ME has been Morocco and the people there were so wonderful--except for the one time we almost got kidnapped.

I wandered round Morocco like I owned the place - little did I know I was at risk of kidnapping
People I met just thought it was great that I could speak some Arabic and that I knew some singers.
Israel would be a great clubbing choice for me with Syria providing a bit of culture

I would love to go to Israel for a longer while, a year or so, at some point in my life. Visa regulations make it impossible right now though as working permits are extremely restricted unless you are Jewish and making aliyah.

If you wish to travel around Israel, the website http://www.newinisrael.com is very handy and full of information. It is in theory about relocations to Israel but also full of information for visiting the country.

I believe some embassies can issue an extra passport for the Israeli stamp, as any Arab country (apart from Jordan and Egypt who have normal ties with Israel) would reject you when the passport contains an Israeli stamp. Not sure about Morocco, but countries like Syria, UAE, Oman, etc would refuse access when they see an Israeli passport stamp, some countries help you solve this issue by issueing two passports, one for the Israeli stamp and one for all others.

Gerrit the above post shows that you truly have little idea of what you are talking about; Errors in your above statement(s).......

1. Really depends what you want to do, currently I would estimate that there are over 20,000 Turks and perhaps 10,000 Vietnamese in Israel all working on limited duration work permits (between 1-5 years) none of these people are Jewish. As you sound a bit idealistic you could very easily live on a Kibbutz and at worst just jump in and out of the country to renew your status.

2. As anyone who really needs to know knows, the problem is rarely the Israeli stamp, as the Israelis in most cases will stamp you in and out on a seperate piece of paper if asked, but rather the Egyptian and Jordanian stamps from their crossings into/out of Israel that cause the problems in places like Syria, Iran or Saudi.

3. Saying something like "Syria, UAE, Oman, etc. "is moronic. For the last decade neither the UAE nor Oman could give a damn if you had an Israeli stamp in your passport, hell you can even travel to Oman WITH an Israeli passport under the right circumstances, I really don't care what the "official" regs are, that is how it is on the ground and I know tons of people who regularly travel to these countries and Israel with no hassle. Hell when the DPW deal was being attacked by the US congress, it was the Chairman of ZIM, that came to bat for Dubai. Incidentally there are no problems for Morocco either.

[quote user="tallpony" post="91132"]Gerrit the above post shows that you truly have little idea of what you are talking about; Errors in your above statement(s).......

1. Really depends what you want to do, currently I would estimate that there are over 20,000 Turks and perhaps 10,000 Vietnamese in Israel all working on limited duration work permits (between 1-5 years) none of these people are Jewish. As you sound a bit idealistic you could very easily live on a Kibbutz and at worst just jump in and out of the country to renew your status.

2. As anyone who really needs to know knows, the problem is rarely the Israeli stamp, as the Israelis in most cases will stamp you in and out on a seperate piece of paper if asked, but rather the Egyptian and Jordanian stamps from their crossings into/out of Israel that cause the problems in places like Syria, Iran or Saudi.

3. Saying something like "Syria, UAE, Oman, etc. "is moronic. For the last decade neither the UAE nor Oman could give a damn if you had an Israeli stamp in your passport, hell you can even travel to Oman WITH an Israeli passport under the right circumstances, I really don't care what the "official" regs are, that is how it is on the ground and I know tons of people who regularly travel to these countries and Israel with no hassle. Hell when the DPW deal was being attacked by the US congress, it was the Chairman of ZIM, that came to bat for Dubai. Incidentally there are no problems for Morocco either.[/quote]

I can only comment on others' experiences about what I wrote about UAE, and on official regulations which have been published on several resources. I cannot comment on practical use... To call that 'moronic' is a bit strong for an unintendfully given 'incorrect' information, not? Officially UAE and several other Arab nations do refuse Israeli stamps, this may not happen often in practice but this is how it officially goes, which has also been published in various travelling resources. Several embassies therefor issue two passports upon request when needed to travel to both israel and Arab countries, this is at least what the Belgian and Dutch embassies sometimes do, won't comment on other countries.

I am aware of the kibbutz options, but this is in theory only for 6 months and although with the right connections it can be extended it's not really the regular everyday life... To live in Israel and work legally nowadays is extremely hard unless
a) you are jewish or of jewish origin
b) have an Israeli partner
c) were born in Israel
d) work in a professional field where extra staff is needed. A list for this is published in the guide for immigrant workers on the government portal (http://gov.il/).

I am not sure how these Vietnamese and Turkish people got their jobs, but did they either work in construction works, health care, hotel work or so?

I did not experience the passport stamp in person so I may be wrong in practice there, having only read the official regulations.
In terms of the working permits, I know what I am talking about as a few close friends of mine tried to get into Israel for a long while and I also showed interest in the past. One of them is now converting to judaism as she was tired of waiting for a different (less complex) way of entering the country long-term and after several employers literarly told her it was absolutely impossible for her as it stands now. Kibbutz are a nice short-term option but this is not what everyone is happy with, and you can get short term working permits for eg hotel work (and other labours listed by the government in the guide for immigrant workers) but this is not the most secure option as the government can terminate the visa when they want and hotels and construction works don't always pay very well.

I am sure there are lot of non-jews working in Israel long-term, but visa regulations have been going more restricted in recent years for the regular office or administration job. If you know any people that managed to get a working permit recently and for a job other than construction work, medical care or tourism industry, then I know a few people who would be very interested in hearing how they did it as those people I refer to have been trying unsuccesfully to enter Israel for quite a while now despite a very decent degree. I won't question that you're right about those immigrant workers and figures, but I'd be curious to hear how they got in, as it's not as easy as just applying for a job and going. Unless you're in those few labour fields, and yes there's the kibbutz option but that is not a long-term option neither.

You must listen to Tallpony. He knows all the statistics on everything! He covers every corner of global information and has accurate info and the experience and contacts to match!!!

I'm sure he'll give you the inside info on how exactly your friends can get into Israel, becasue nobody else has enough experience or expertise in this area to help.

TP....over to you!

In the past I showed interest in several countries in the middle East myself, and did some research. I contacted
1) several companies to see what was possible and what was not. Even for jobs where I had exactly the profile they wanted, my non-jewish heritage made it impossible for companies to arrange the permit.
2) a Rabbi and a Jewish organisation to see if any had connections to give me more information.
3) a Kibbutz organisation. Were willing to help though only for 6 months, although one guy was very helpful and said he'd be able to extend it to a year.

This was just what I researched. Those friends of mine, who really want to go to Israel and had no other countries of interest, went a bit further and one is now converting because she ran out of other options. When asked for a loophole, one of them got the answer that his only potential loophole would be an Israeli woman, which of course is a difficult target when you don't live in Israel.

If there is some way around the visa regulations, I know a few people that'd be very interested as they have tried to get into Israel for a very long time but never had any luck despite good qualifications. They do not want to do construction work and have no medical background I should add, as those are indeed labours where permits are easier to get but not every wants or is able to do that sort of work.